[manghost47]

А вообще я так скажу: не дело обсуждать постфлоп раздачи, в которой допущена ошибка на префлопе.

[doppler]

а зачем делать лайтовый 3бет с рукой, которая имеет достаточно вэлью для колла?

[manghost47]

Сообщение от doppler

а зачем делать лайтовый 3бет с рукой, которая имеет достаточно вэлью для колла?

В этом все дело. Префлоп колл, а не 3бет.

[f4ke]

Сообщение от manghost47

P.S. Удали ссылочку из цитаты если не трудно. Там раздача с 4бетом

Не могу редактировать уже
Вообще само собой раздача смысла не имеет т.к. колл префлоп, но пофлеймить-то нужно

[doppler]

не хочу чтобы этот пост расценили как флэйм, но вот пост, который как нельзя лучше подходит к этой раздаче:
Primum Non Nocere, Part 1

For those of you who have studied Latin, pat yourself on the back – you can now laugh at anyone who’s told you that you would never use it. For everyone else, I’ll begin with this maxim: Preflop compounds postflop.

This means that a seemingly minor (and thus inexpensive) mistake made preflop grows exponentially postflop.

Example:

It’s folded around to you on the button. You pick up AJo and raise. The button folds and the SB re-raises you. The SB has been active and you see that he 3-bets 8% of hands over a 250 hand sample. You are both sitting on roughly 100BB’s, and you figure that AJo plays ok vs. that range and that you’ll be in position postflop, and thus be able to control the action. You make the call.

The pot now stands at 20 BB’s.

The flop comes QJ5r. The SB leads for 65% pot and you make the call with your mid-pair.

The pot now stands at 46 BB’s.

The turn is a 9 putting a flush draw out there. The SB leads again for a little less than 60% pot. You reason that he could have picked up a flush draw which he is now double barreling and maybe doing it with AK to try to push you off a mid-pair. You call again.

The pot now stands at 100 BB’s.

The river is a 2 and the flush draw misses. Villain shoves his remaining 50 BB’s and you sit there getting 3-1 on your money wondering if you are pot committed and whether villain is 3-barrell bluffing his AKo or missed backdoor flush draw. Life sucks.

You: "LOL - this hand was played badly and I would never be in this spot."
Me: "Liar - you've been in spots like this."

All of us have found ourselves in a similar hand where we make a questionable preflop call and somehow come up with all sorts of reasons to call the flop, turn, and rivers. You end up posting the hand on the forums and get the two line reply: Fold preflop.

This is going to be the topic of this article and the meaning behind Primum Non Nocere: First, do no harm. It is a fundamental principle in medical ethics which teaches young medical students that sometimes it is better to do nothing than to try something which could potentially do more harm than good. You should treat your preflop game in the same fashion.

What will follow will be a general guide to preflop play for 25NL and below tweaked by wishiewish (who I've realized is better at poker than I am ATM) and myself (who is better at explaining and organizing than he is). It's designed to maximize your EV vs. a pool of relative unknowns (which seems to be the case when you are playing 25NL and below). Many of you will find this unsurprisingly bland and boring, but hopefully the discussion and explanations will be helpful.

Автор Verneer 2p2.

[sonic]

Не люблю играть играть АВ+ колом в позиции это или без, стандартно даю 3 бет и смотрим флоп, так мы собираем информацию о силе руки оппонента, в данном случаю считаю своей ошибкой небольшой ререйз его ставки на флопе, думаю он меня крутил бы с АК на флопе и тогда я смог бы сделать изи пас, потеряв меньше денег

[manghost47]

Сообщение от sonic

Не люблю играть играть АВ+ колом в позиции это или без, стандартно даю 3 бет и смотрим флоп, так мы собираем информацию о силе руки оппонента, в данном случаю считаю своей ошибкой небольшой ререйз его ставки на флопе, думаю он меня крутил бы с АК на флопе и тогда я смог бы сделать изи пас, потеряв меньше денег

Такие стандарты дорого обходятся

[manghost47]

Сообщение от f4ke

но пофлеймить-то нужно

бла бла бла

[manghost47]

Сообщение от doppler

не хочу чтобы этот пост расценили как флэйм, но вот пост, который как нельзя лучше подходит к этой раздаче:
Primum Non Nocere, Part 1

For those of you who have studied Latin, pat yourself on the back – you can now laugh at anyone who’s told you that you would never use it. For everyone else, I’ll begin with this maxim: Preflop compounds postflop.

This means that a seemingly minor (and thus inexpensive) mistake made preflop grows exponentially postflop.

Example:

It’s folded around to you on the button. You pick up AJo and raise. The button folds and the SB re-raises you. The SB has been active and you see that he 3-bets 8% of hands over a 250 hand sample. You are both sitting on roughly 100BB’s, and you figure that AJo plays ok vs. that range and that you’ll be in position postflop, and thus be able to control the action. You make the call.

The pot now stands at 20 BB’s.

The flop comes QJ5r. The SB leads for 65% pot and you make the call with your mid-pair.

The pot now stands at 46 BB’s.

The turn is a 9 putting a flush draw out there. The SB leads again for a little less than 60% pot. You reason that he could have picked up a flush draw which he is now double barreling and maybe doing it with AK to try to push you off a mid-pair. You call again.

The pot now stands at 100 BB’s.

The river is a 2 and the flush draw misses. Villain shoves his remaining 50 BB’s and you sit there getting 3-1 on your money wondering if you are pot committed and whether villain is 3-barrell bluffing his AKo or missed backdoor flush draw. Life sucks.

You: "LOL - this hand was played badly and I would never be in this spot."
Me: "Liar - you've been in spots like this."

All of us have found ourselves in a similar hand where we make a questionable preflop call and somehow come up with all sorts of reasons to call the flop, turn, and rivers. You end up posting the hand on the forums and get the two line reply: Fold preflop.

This is going to be the topic of this article and the meaning behind Primum Non Nocere: First, do no harm. It is a fundamental principle in medical ethics which teaches young medical students that sometimes it is better to do nothing than to try something which could potentially do more harm than good. You should treat your preflop game in the same fashion.

What will follow will be a general guide to preflop play for 25NL and below tweaked by wishiewish (who I've realized is better at poker than I am ATM) and myself (who is better at explaining and organizing than he is). It's designed to maximize your EV vs. a pool of relative unknowns (which seems to be the case when you are playing 25NL and below). Many of you will find this unsurprisingly bland and boring, but hopefully the discussion and explanations will be helpful.

Автор Verneer 2p2.

перевод: **************

[4eJIoBeK]

Сообщение от manghost47

перевод: ******

Внесу свое слово..))
Часто сижу на батОне, с АЙ, ктото ставит.. и когда динамика мутная и ставит проснувшийся нит или просто кол стейшн.. я изи фолд такую руку и сижу дальше..
НЕт пробелм в пост флоп игре и прочего... Нет натроения играть? не знаешь как разыграть? Жми фолт и сиди жди своей игры..
не всегда и не везде но иногд както так..

[manghost47]

Сообщение от 4eJIoBeK

Внесу свое слово..))
Часто сижу на батОне, с АЙ, ктото ставит.. и когда динамика мутная и ставит проснувшийся нит или просто кол стейшн.. я изи фолд такую руку и сижу дальше..
НЕт пробелм в пост флоп игре и прочего... Нет натроения играть? не знаешь как разыграть? Жми фолт и сиди жди своей игры..
не всегда и не везде но иногд както так..

Ну да если нит открывается с поздней то вполне в позе можно вколить.
И потом, нужно как то разбавить диапазон кола рейза. Не только с карманками же колить